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Old May 9th, 2003, 08:03 PM   #26
hawk54321
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1) you are right you did say that, but why do you believe that you are more right than a non believer, and what to you is considered a "believer"

2)and who's to say that it is forbidden in scripture? you? if you look at how many different forms of the Protestant religion there are, and how different they are, you will see that every single one believes that they have the proper meaning in the scripture and that the others are wrong, i'm sure you know but in case you don't the main premise of the Protestant religion is that they follow The Bible to a 't'
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Old May 9th, 2003, 08:09 PM   #27
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Many Protestants have serious issues. In fact I believe that many "so called" Christians are anything but. Read my reasons I believe Catholics are not Christians thread for examples of the errors I am talking about. I don't mean miniscule things like when the rapture will occur or what day of the week should church services be held.

As for what a believer is:

Billy Grahm sums it up nicely:

http://www.billygraham.org/believe/h...achristian.asp

And non-believers can understand the scriptures up to a point. But there is simply no way a non-believer can tell believers how a Christian should act/live/ etc.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
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Old May 9th, 2003, 08:39 PM   #28
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well by the same token, nobody, religious or not, doesnt have the right to tell someone how to live, that includes you

and how can you say that the protestants have issues, when they themselves believe that you may have issues, due to your difference in beliefs, what makes you any more correct then they?

and there are, im sure, some Christians that believe that you are a "so called" Christian for your innability to remove yourself from the internet and other addictions, im not knocking you for it but you cant deny that people see it that way
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Old May 9th, 2003, 08:51 PM   #29
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Whatever it is that you or someone else "sees" open the scripture and discuss it with me. But if your a non-believer I am told to take no council in what you say. If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ there is no reason we shouldn't be able to discuss issues peacefully.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old May 9th, 2003, 10:30 PM   #30
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But if your a non-believer I am told to take no council in what you say.
And who "told" you that? Those voices in your head? Yeah, I can see how they have tolled you.
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Look, you can whine all you want to but there is NO WAY a child of Satan can tell a child of God what the Bible "means".
Once again spoken with the authority of the ignorant. You are a warmongering fool who belittles war protesters, but implies he is a child of God. Do you even know what the term means? Jesus says in Matthew 5:9: "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." I fit that description far better than you.

You're so wrapped in causing pain, that you even idolize violent fictional characters like The Punisher. You so get off on the faux violence of wrestling, that you yearned to be a part of it. Maybe you should check your own birth certificate? Since I don't believe my alleged father Satan even exists, I guess from your perspective, that would make my beliefs "orphan correct."
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I mean it's completely laughable that anyone would believe that.
It's completely laughable that you would believe anyone told you that anyone can tell you what the Bible means. It is even more laughable that you believe you have the knowledge to tell others what the Bible means. You quote Paul, but do so untaught. 2 Peter 3 15-16 has something to say about people like you:
Quote:
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
In case you didn't get that, it says that there are things in Paul's letters that are hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable (a perfect description of you) will twist in meaning to fit their own simple-minded understanding, just as they do other scriptures; but in the end it is they who will be destroyed. Perhaps you should change your name to The Self-Punisher. As it says in Proverbs 1:7, fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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Satan himself knows the scripture inside and out, forward and backward. So the fact the Imashroom can quote passages as if he has some kind of insight is not the least bit surprising.
Which may explain your ability to quote it.
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Most of you like what Imashroom says because it requires NOTHING of you.
This is the height of ignorance. People attacked you not because they like what I have to say, but because they dislike what you had to say. You can try to deflect the blame to me, but your words come from your foolish mouth, not mine.
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You don't have to believe a certain way, you don't have to accept Jesus Christ personally, and you certainly don't have to alter one aspect of your life. Your free to live as you please and still entertain some hopes of pleasing The Lord. You think you can be "good" enough to earn Heaven.
Keep ranting, but not a single person here has said that, except you. If you accepted Jesus personally, you'd take to heart Matthew 5:
Quote:
27: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I'd say that based on some of your posts, you are a lust soul...
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Following this supposed "brilliance" that was learned so much more than I why would any of you ever want to accept my view of TRUE Christianity?
Because it is YOUR view, and therefore by definition not true Christianity, whatever that means. Christianity is felt in different ways by different Christians, and for you to profess to know the true version, makes you a perfect candidate for a child of Satan. You clothe yourself in a coat of loose lies -- a looser fur.
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I mean after all if someone tells you anything your doing is sin, just pull out that famous "Do not judge" passage to back yourself up.
So scripture that works against you is unworthy of quote? The passage is there to remind you that before you go condemning others, look at yourself. You sin big time, but instead of focusing soully on doing better, you attack others, giving you a false feeling of holier than thou righteousness. Take care of that cinder in your own eye, before using the lash on others.
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I am not going to "water down" the gospel so not to offend people.
How could you water down something you don't understand? What you do instead is hose it.
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As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
If you understood that quote, you'd know why I am sitting here laughing at you using it to defend your position. On the other hand, it will cast a pall on you...
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I said I am "more right" than those who do not believe.
How can you be "more right"? Right and wrong are absolutes. Are you suddenly becoming a believer in relative truth? How fitting for a relative of Satan.
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NO "sect" is right who practices anything clearly forbidden in scripture.
So you don't eat pork? And you respect the Sabbath? We've already covered the adultery part. As Jesus says in Matthew 5:19: "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

And aren't you the one who called me "an agnotic peice[sic] of shit"? What happened to the admonition in Matthew 5:34: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all.."? Or 5:38-39: "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Have you taken the "hypocritic" oath? I can't resist evil; so I bend over and turn my other cheek to you.
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Old May 9th, 2003, 11:35 PM   #31
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When all is said and done, Punisher will only listen to those select few who believe in the same interpretation of scripture that he does, which of course means that they already agree and can't truly challenge each other. Since he's reserved for himself the right to declare who is and is not a Christian (so much for it being a personal relationship), he's rescued from having to consider the input of a "false" Christian like me who agrees more closely with Imash than I do with him.

You can live in fear of the law, but me, I'm going to live with the Spirit. You might want to bone up on getting your camel through the eye of the needle.

Imash, seriously man, save the puns for playtime. It's hard to go "right on man" when I start to groan painfully part way through.

And while many of Pun's points about Catholicism are reasons why I'd never be a Catholic, I think the Pope may be onto something with this antichrist thing...
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:05 AM   #32
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mountpanic;

How can you agree with an agnostic who denies Christ’s absolute Lordship? I mean it sounds like you lean heavily toward Christianity so I just don't get this at all???

Or do you embrace "God" and deny Christ as well? I mean believers can disagree on war and such, no big deal, but to mock the salvation message and yet use quotes from the very book that teaches that message in order to back yourself up does not seem intelligent to me. In fact it seems like a mental disorder.

Imashroom, you've studied religion so you could comfortably live as you see fit. If this is not true tell me what it is that you DO believe. Who is the author of life? How does one enter into eternity with God? I know I've asked you this stuff before and all you have ever done is quote a bunch of nonsense that you then even disqualify by saying something like "no one truly knows".

Who told me not to listen to a non-believer?????? I can't believe your even asking that?

Proverbs 23
9 Do not speak to a fool,
for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.

Who is a fool?

Psalm 53
1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."

(NOTE: I believe this means the God of Scriptures, not some demon or nothing that someone wants to "call" God.)

Quote:
Once again spoken with the authority of the ignorant. You are a warmongering fool who belittles war protesters, but implies he is a child of God. Do you even know what the term means? Jesus says in Matthew 5:9: "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." I fit that description far better than you.
What if, after trying to make peace no peace comes? For years we’ve tried to deal with Saddam and his “so called” government with peace talks, and “other” means. Yet he still assists terrorists, produces horrid weapons of mass destruction, kills his own people, etc. Today I even heard he jailed people who owned satellite TV! I am not going to argue with anyone who believes allowing Sadam to remain in power was a good idea. Even to the point of trying to bring JESUS into agreement with that stance. You’ve never found me backing my disgust with war protestors with scripture verses. You imply that I do this for more “strokes” from your liberal buddies but the fact is I’ve never done this. I believe Sadam is evil to the core and threatens the safety and security of the United States and Israel. As such I feel it’s acceptable to remove him from power. I feel the same about several middle eastern leaders and if any of them are next on that list then I will back up those efforts as well.

Genesis 12
2 "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."

We bless Israel when we stand against her enemies. I see it as simple as that. You of course hold Islamic demon worship in high regard so of course the god you SUPPOSEDLY admit exists could never support a war against any religion because after all, they are all “a way” to get to him right?

John 14
5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[1] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."


That’s right, I said it’s a war against that religion. Bush knows he can’t say that and maybe he doesn’t even believe that. But make no mistake I believe these demon worshippers have declared was against Israel and as such I believe anytime we have a chance to take any of them out we should do so unless they repent. They can worship demons all they want to so long as they leave Israel alone and do not attack us simply because we support Israel.

Those of you who do not like the support of Israel, LEAVE the United States! We have always supported them and there is no clear reason not to. This has always been one area on CC that TMO makes you look like fools. He constantly reports correctly on the battle of the ages and instead of getting refuted he gets called names and his information gets labeled as propaganda. Yet your pro radical Muslim spew isn’t propaganda? It’s honesty? It’s to be accepted without question?

Now….

2 Peter 3 15-16

Imashroom, your lost on this one! Look at the entire text!
1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[1]
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[2] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

This is speaking of “The Last Days” or the second coming of Jesus Christ. Here many believers had been deceived by people saying Jesus would never return! They were confused and asking questions. Peter is telling them that Paul is writing about the return of Christ in a way that they just weren’t clearly understanding. Instead of worrying about it, they should just live “spotless and blameless” before Him because He could come today, tomorrow, or five thousand years from now. Most believers know that understanding “end times” is a gift that some believers have and others don’t. I talk to some believers who have a vast knowledge of end times and still others who don’t know or understand the first thing about it. I know preachers who will not even teach on Revelation. What Peter is saying here is that if you don’t understand end times very well don’t lose faith in Christ’s return. Don’t date set or give up. Many unlearned people will try to say things about this (like “Where is this 'coming' he promised?” maybe?) as they do all with all the scriptures (right Imashroom) to their own peril!
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:06 AM   #33
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Quote:
Which may explain your ability to quote it.
So you’re just throwing back to me what I implied about you? Ok, then….no I’m not YOU ARE!

Quote:
I'd say that based on some of your posts, you are a lust soul...
Yes..sometimes I sin. I keep working on this with the power of the Holy Spirit. At least I can admit what a sin is and what a sin is not. I can at least bend my knee to the Savior who dies for me. I do not arrogantly do what ever I please saying it doesn’t matter.

Quote:
How can you be "more right"? Right and wrong are absolutes. Are you suddenly becoming a believer in relative truth? How fitting for a relative of Satan.
Sigh… that was clearly just a reply to the question I was asked the way that it was asked. What bothers me is that you KNOW this but still use it in a lame attempt to make some stupid point.

Again with Matthew 5:19 you use ONE verse to try and make a point. Let’s look at a little more of it.

Matthew 5
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I don’t teach people to break the law. I just tell you that we are NOT saved by it. If Christ knowing we are all imperfect says we have to be more righteous that the Pharisees to enter heaven what does He mean?

Romans 9
30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

Righteousness comes by FAITH. Keeping the law comes by FAITH. Faith is the very thing you LACK, it is the very thing you deny! Faith is for fools according to you. If you can’t see or touch it you will have none of it. Why can’t you just be honest for once instead of slamming me? I got mad once and called you a piece of shit. For that I am forgiven by my Lord and Savoir through my faith in Him. You call me fool, unlearned, and a child of Satan yet profess NO FAITH AT ALL.

Roman 1
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[1] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith.

John 3
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[1] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Imashoorm, you call dark lightness!

Isaiah 5
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

You like to try and point out my sins in hopes of disqualifying anything I have to say. Well, if we have to be sinless to preach Christ and Him crucified then it would never be preached! In fact I may be sinning in debating with you!

Proverbs 27
3 Stone is heavy and sand a burden,
but provocation by a fool is heavier than both.

I do allow you to provoke me after all.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old May 10th, 2003, 07:58 PM   #34
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Proverbs 23 9 Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words. Who is a fool? Psalm 53 1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
I do not say there is no God. I couldn't be an agnostic if I did. So much for that argument. But you are contradicting yourself, since earlier in the thread, you disdained wisdom and knowledge by quoting from the Bible:"If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise." You also misinterpret the intent of Psalm 53; try reading it in Hebrew. More germane to this foolish discussion is Proverbs 1:22: "How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?" There is no one on this board who has more fervently disparaged knowledge, or acted more simple, than you. The description of a fool given in Proverbs 10:18 also fits you: "He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool." If I followed your advice, it would be me, not you, who would withdraw from this discussion.
Quote:
What if, after trying to make peace no peace comes?
Argue the point with Jesus, not with me. Those are his admonitions. As you say, accepting Jesus is not easy.
Quote:
For years we’ve tried to deal with Saddam and his “so called” government with peace talks, and “other” means. Yet he still assists terrorists, produces horrid weapons of mass destruction, kills his own people, etc.
All of which the US and Israel do. But there is no credible evidence that Saddam still assisted terrorists who were a threat to us -- none. There has yet to be produced evidence that he still produced MWDs, and there was a process in place to deal with that, which we circumvented. But I am not defending Saddam Hussein. He was a brutal tyrant, and I despised him, and I am extremely happy to see him gone. Sometimes evil acts have good consequences.
Quote:
I am not going to argue with anyone who believes allowing Sadam to remain in power was a good idea.
I didn't say it was a good idea. You keep making up arguments that aren't presented. You should pursue a career as a make-up artist. But you may have trouble dealing with your lip sticking from the drivel.
Quote:
Even to the point of trying to bring JESUS into agreement with that stance. You’ve never found me backing my disgust with war protestors with scripture verses. You imply that I do this for more “strokes” from your liberal buddies but the fact is I’ve never done this.
What are you talking about?
Quote:
I believe Sadam is evil to the core and threatens the safety and security of the United States and Israel. As such I feel it’s acceptable to remove him from power. I feel the same about several middle eastern leaders and if any of them are next on that list then I will back up those efforts as well.
My point about you exactly.
Quote:
We bless Israel when we stand against her enemies. I see it as simple as that.
What? Israel is a whole nation of people who don't believe Jesus is the son of God or our savior. Yet you would bless them, while calling me a child of Satan for similar beliefs?
Quote:
You of course hold Islamic demon worship in high regard so of course the god you SUPPOSEDLY admit exists could never support a war against any religion because after all, they are all “a way” to get to him right?
Where do you get that I hold Islamic demon worship in high regard? Are you imbibing jinn? I hold all religions with the same regard, and it is not a high one.
Quote:
That’s right, I said it’s a war against that religion. But make no mistake I believe these demon worshippers have declared was against Israel and as such I believe anytime we have a chance to take any of them out we should do so unless they repent.
You are one demented and scary person, and that little passage demonstrates beyond all doubt that you are as much a follower of Jesus as Kopp was.
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Those of you who do not like the support of Israel, LEAVE the United States!
Now that's just pure wacky, insane, extremist, illogical, and unAmerican talk. It's also very cult-like.
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We have always supported them and there is no clear reason not to.
There are plenty of clear reasons not to, but it takes a clear head to see them.
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This has always been one area on CC that TMO makes you look like fools. He constantly reports correctly on the battle of the ages and instead of getting refuted he gets called names and his information gets labeled as propaganda.
No, he gets largely ignored because he is a troll.
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Yet your pro radical Muslim spew isn’t propaganda?
Who makes "pro radical Muslim spew"? I am not pro Islam, Christianity, or Judaism.
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Now…. 2 Peter 3 15-16 Imashroom, your lost on this one!
Nope.
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Look at the entire text!
I have; many times, and in many different versions, and in more than one language. And what are all those bracketed numbers doing in your quote of the text? Is this another cut and paste "explanation"? But in any case, looking at the entire text does nothing to counter the point I was making, which didn't require an exegesis. The part I cited warns that the untaught and unstable distort the scriptures; that was the point, and your interpretation of the "meaning" of the rest of the text (which is only an interpretation) is irrelevant.
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I talk to some believers who have a vast knowledge of end times and still others who don’t know or understand the first thing about it. I know preachers who will not even teach on Revelation.
You do? Why won't they teach it? And what's your point with these two sentences relative to this discussion? There is no end to the times you ramble.
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So you’re just throwing back to me what I implied about you? Ok, then….no I’m not YOU ARE!
It was an infantile argument on your part to begin with, and treated so by me. Ad hominems are meaningless in discussion.
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I do not arrogantly do what ever I please saying it doesn’t matter.
Neither do I. You continue creating arguments and then refuting them.
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that was clearly just a reply to the question I was asked the way that it was asked. What bothers me is that you KNOW this but still use it in a lame attempt to make some stupid point.
It wasn't a stupid point. You argue against moral relativity then use it when it suits you. You were either claiming to be right, or not. It is meretricious for YOU to use a statement like "more right."
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Righteousness comes by FAITH. Keeping the law comes by FAITH.
No they don't.
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Faith is the very thing you LACK, it is the very thing you deny! Faith is for fools according to you.
Only when it is contradicted by evidence. You misquote me again.
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If you can’t see or touch it you will have none of it.
Wrong, absolutely and totally. I can't see or touch gravity, electrons, etc., but I don't reject them.
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Why can’t you just be honest for once instead of slamming me?
About what? I have been mercilessly honest with you.
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I got mad once and called you a piece of shit. For that I am forgiven by my Lord and Savoir through my faith in Him.
You hope.
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You call me fool, unlearned, and a child of Satan yet profess NO FAITH AT ALL.
I don't need faith when there is evidence. You are a fool and unlearned. I don't think you're a child of Satan, just a child, since I don't believe Satan exists. If he did, yes, you fit the model of a Satanic offspring; especially the off part. But it was you who were implying that about me, and if you think your faith allows you the right to do such things, then your mind is bedeviled.
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Imashoorm, you call dark lightness!
No. But I do call dark evil people such as yourself who want to kill other people, light-brained.
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You like to try and point out my sins in hopes of disqualifying anything I have to say.
It's you who keeps pointing out my "sin" as a nonbeliever in hope of disqualifying what I have to say. Just read your posts.

I honestly didn't realize how nuts you were before. Now I can see why you don't always come out of your shell.
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Old May 10th, 2003, 08:16 PM   #35
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your interpretation of the "meaning" of the rest of the text (which is only an interpretation) is irrelevant.
And this is why you and I debating/arguing is pointless. To me this is absolute PROOF as to why you have no right using scripture in any of your arguments. You can pull a sentence or two from an entire chapter and use it to back some point your trying to make. However, When I take the entire text and put your sentence(s) into context you claim it's not only irrelevant but ONLY my interpretation of said context.

That's insane! Anyone can do that. Anyone can grab a sentence from the bible, or any other book and claim it means something. In fact that's how must cults like Roman Catholicism, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons do it. They even use the "that's your interpretation" argument when you try to show them how they have erred!

AS for the entire Israel argument I don't see the point of discussing this either. I view them as God's chosen people that He has yet to fulfill His covenant with and you view them as just another people's like anyone else. Of course you could care less if we support them or not and I would fight to the death for them. You would praise their enemies and I stand for their destruction.

Tell me this though will you? How many Countries surrounding Israel do you feel have moral, upstanding leaders that deserve our support? That could make for intresting discussion.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:11 PM   #36
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And this is why you and I debating/arguing is pointless. To me this is absolute PROOF as to why you have no right using scripture in any of your arguments. You can pull a sentence or two from an entire chapter and use it to back some point your trying to make. However, When I take the entire text and put your sentence(s) into context you claim it's not only irrelevant but ONLY my interpretation of said context.
You didn't put my sentence into context; you went on discussing an interpretation of a whole passage that added no new meaning to the part I was referencing. The pertinent part was
Quote:
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures
It refers to the unlearned and unstable and their problem in comprehending other scriptures, not just the passage you are "explaining," and it references specifically this problem with all of Paul's epistles, not just those on a special topic.

More interestingly, just what makes you so sure your interpretation of the rest of the text was right anyway? How do you know what the writer's intent was, with such certainty? Are you quoting someone else's interpretation? Do you know what the Greek, or even the Latin Vulgate, say? If we are to discuss the passage as a whole, we need to discuss its own context within a larger framework.

And why did you evade my question about your claiming to know preachers who won't teach on Revelation, and my asking why they won't?
Quote:
That's insane! Anyone can do that. Anyone can grab a sentence from the bible, or any other book and claim it means something.
Exactly! You got it! That's been my argument all along. Just read the exchange I had with rick. I made that point several times. But this tactic is exactly what you and he do, and you have even been doing throughout this thread. You throw the out of context one or two-liners into the argument to allegedly support your position. I am just fighting fire with fire. I am no more out of line than you.
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In fact that's how must cults like Roman Catholicism, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons do it.
As well as the cult of Self-Punisherism. You are highly acculturated.
Quote:
They even use the "that's your interpretation" argument when you try to show them how they have erred!
That too is a weakness that I've continually addressed. Like it or not, the Bible is subject to interpretation, and to the vagaries of translation, and that's one of its biggest flaws. It's virtually impossible to show anyone, including you, how they might have erred with regard to the Bible, since, as we agree, anyone can use the "that's your interpretation argument." At least that's my interpretation of your argument. Unlike with science, there is no way to test an interpretation of a Biblical passage. Some Southern fundamentalist could even say "that's not the test ah meant..."

The "that's your interpretation" argument has also been the very defense you use against me when I point out contradictions in the Bible. Tell me, how do YOU explain all those contradictions? Or will you sit on de fence?
Quote:
AS for the entire Israel argument I don't see the point of discussing this either. I view them as God's chosen people that He has yet to fulfill His covenant with and you view them as just another people's like anyone else.
Well, assuming that is true, how am I a son of Satan, since I am one of those allegedly chosen people? Or have you chosen to forget I am a Jew?
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Of course you could care less if we support them or not and I would fight to the death for them.
Then why aren't you?
Quote:
You would praise their enemies and I stand for their destruction.
I don't praise their enemies. Just because I do not support Israel does not mean I support her enemies.
Quote:
Tell me this though will you? How many Countries surrounding Israel do you feel have moral, upstanding leaders that deserve our support?
None.

Now how many countries surrounding China do you feel have moral, upstanding leaders? Does this mean we should support China? If not, then whose words were "red" wrong?
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:44 PM   #37
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If we are to discuss the passage as a whole, we need to discuss its own context within a larger framework.
If thats possable then I agree.

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And why did you evade my question about your claiming to know preachers who won't teach on Revelation, and my asking why they won't?
I thought I alluded to an answer. I believe that "prophecy" is a gift. That God gives the gift of understand prophecy to some in a "bigger" way. Those without this gift either speak about it very little and others are so intimidated by it they do not speak to it at all. (Which I believe is WRONG but better than speaking in error)

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Or have you chosen to forget I am a Jew?
Whoa...I suppose I did. You know that does indeed put a whole new spin on our debates. You know I believe if Christ returns in our life time you will acceept Him as Savior?! That would be great!

Quote:
Then why aren't you?
Meaning what? Move to Israel and become a citizen and join the army? While I don't condem that it's far from convient for me and most importantly not a call the Lord has placed on my heart. Instead I support war against ANY of Israels enemies and would fight if called upon to do so.

Quote:
I don't praise their enemies. Just because I do not support Israel does not mean I support her enemies.
By default it would seem as though you do. I like the Punisher because off his one line. "Those who do not punish evil condone it." I see this applying here as well.

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Now how many countries surrounding China do you feel have moral, upstanding leaders? Does this mean we should support China? If not, then whose words were "red" wrong?
Chyna is not God's chosen people.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:49 PM   #38
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Originally posted by The Punisher


Chyna is not God's chosen people.
well whose chosen people are they then? or are they just kinda godless?
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:53 PM   #39
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I think he means the wrestler. Pun obviously doesn't know much about the real world, but he shore knows him some wrasslin'.
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:56 PM   #40
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lol....yep you got me on the China thing. I've been hyping the next WWE RAW game for XB so I suppose that's how that happened.

China and her people are loved by God of course but they simply are not the "apple of God's eye". If you have issues with that take it up with the Lord not me.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old May 10th, 2003, 09:59 PM   #41
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Originally posted by The Punisher
lol....yep you got me on the China thing. I've been hyping the next WWE RAW game for XB so I suppose that's how that happened.

China and her people are loved by God of course but they simply are not the "apple of God's eye". If you have issues with that take it up with the Lord not me.
u got his phone number or e-mail adress or somethin? is it like [email protected] or somethin like that? but you aren't much to say who is the apple of gods eye, the bible was written by men, men have prejudices and they will write to those prejudices no matter what.
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Old May 10th, 2003, 10:02 PM   #42
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u got his phone number or e-mail adress or somethin? is it like [email protected] or somethin like that? but you aren't much to say who is the apple of gods eye, the bible was written by men, men have prejudices and they will write to those prejudices no matter what.
Ok, so you have no faith either. Why is it you people who feel God has no say in your life get so upset at my meager opinions? Honestly if they have no bearing on your life what's with the attitude?

And yes, JFYI I do talk to God all the time. It requires faith however and cannot be tested scientifically. It always amazes me when people say they BELIEVE in "a god" but He is somehow bound by his own science! Does that even make sense? The "Creator" is bound by the very laws that He created?
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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