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Sony They've led sales in the last console generation and are working on the next with the PS3. Will that and the PSP keep them moving at the top of the pack? Discuss it here.

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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:44 PM   #1
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3 Billion in losses due to PS3, may never be recovered.

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Pricing the PlayStation 3 below its production cost caused Sony to lose $2.16 billion in 2007 and $1.16 billion in 2008, the company revealed today.

Sony's fiscal 2008 annual report delineated potential risk factors to its investors, outlining that "the large-scale investment required during the development and introductory period of a new gaming platform may not be fully recovered." The loss figures were provided as an example of the "significant negative impact" introducing a new platform can cause at first.

"In the past, large-scale investment relating to capital expenditures and research and development for the manufacture of key components, including semiconductors supplied for [PlayStation 3] was also recorded within the Electronics segment," the company said.

In order to stay competitive, said Sony, it had to invest large amounts of money in research and development to introduce the PlayStation 3 into the market, and these sorts of expenditures don't always get recouped, especially if a platform "fail[s] to achieve such favorable market penetration... resulting in a significant negative impact on Sony's profitability."

Even if it can recoup its investment, Sony said, it's still possible to have lost large amounts of money on the platform's introductory period, and even a successful PS3 might take a while to replace what it cost to produce. These possible outcomes are currently a risk for the company, Sony said.

~ Kotaku
This will probably be the longest generation us gamers have ever seen (and it should be). But it's going to be really interesting to see what happens next-gen, because it's pretty obvious the days of console manufacturers releasing beefed up machines and selling them at a loss are over.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:46 PM   #2
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Yeah good points, exactly what you said are how it should end up.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:48 PM   #3
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I could also lead to the resurgence of pc gaming. Those beefed up consoles were on par with technology of the highest of high end pc's. If that is to go away, pc could once again be a step ahead of consoles.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:55 PM   #4
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Or companies can just stick to making consoles that play game.. kinda like what Nintendo is doing.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagmere View Post
I could also lead to the resurgence of pc gaming. Those beefed up consoles were on par with technology of the highest of high end pc's. If that is to go away, pc could once again be a step ahead of consoles.
That could very well happen. But someone has to stop piracy, it's a huge issue with PC gaming.

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Or companies can just stick to making consoles that play game.. kinda like what Nintendo is doing.
It plays games? I hardly ever notice...
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 04:15 PM   #6
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It plays games? I hardly ever notice...
Yeah, it's pretty ingenious focusing soley on games.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 04:27 PM   #7
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You seriously think that's impressive? Those numbers tell us nothing.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 08:48 PM   #8
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That's pretty sad, we will have to look at the pc platform for highend gaming in the future.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 09:17 PM   #9
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That's pretty sad, we will have to look at the pc platform for highend gaming in the future.
Future? It already is. My 9600GT runs circles around the 360 and PS3.

Consoles offer true plug and play, and the greatest variety in games. PCs offers a level of customization that no console can match, with the potential to exceed the consoles with the right configurations.

I try to stick with both. Most cross platform games run better on my PC. However, there are exceptions, as well as platform exclusives.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 09:31 PM   #10
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Nothing special there.

Microsoft lost over 4 billion on the first xbox and the Red Ring of Death will probably cost them over 2 billion.

The PS3 technology includes the Blu-Ray drive and that's here to stay. How much has Toshiba lost on the HD-DVD? 2, 3 billion? How much has Microsoft lost on the HD-DVD? That's not going to generate any revenue going forward.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 10:46 PM   #11
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Well, it will probably signal a change. The business model that has worked for the past two generations for Sony, has basically blown up in their face (Microsoft's as well, though they've never been profitable with this particular business model).

Which basically means Sony won't do it again. Or I should say, Sony's investor's won't allow them do it again.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:09 PM   #12
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I'm in favor of the unified console movement.

Just as long as Microsoft designs the architecture, but Sony controls the manufacturing.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:37 PM   #13
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And Nintendo does...?
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
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And Nintendo does...?
Allows licensing of their franchises...lol
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Old June 24th, 2008, 12:56 AM   #15
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Future? It already is. My 9600GT runs circles around the 360 and PS3.

Consoles offer true plug and play, and the greatest variety in games. PCs offers a level of customization that no console can match, with the potential to exceed the consoles with the right configurations.

I try to stick with both. Most cross platform games run better on my PC. However, there are exceptions, as well as platform exclusives.
This generation of consoles still offer high end gaming. You got games like MGS4, GoW series, RE5, etc, which are all great looking games and play very well. I got a 8800gts and I don't think your 9600gt "runs circles" around the 360 or ps3.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #16
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I'm in favor of the unified console movement.
Do you feel that would benefit gamers?
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Old June 24th, 2008, 02:55 AM   #17
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I hope this generation does last a looonng time, the next generation can wait.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 03:15 AM   #18
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This will probably be the longest generation us gamers have ever seen (and it should be). But it's going to be really interesting to see what happens next-gen, because it's pretty obvious the days of console manufacturers releasing beefed up machines and selling them at a loss are over.
How long you think this generation would last?
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Old June 24th, 2008, 07:48 AM   #19
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I'm in favor of the unified console movement
Sony prices console to compete, Sony makes less profit, consumer wins.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 08:27 AM   #20
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Future? It already is. My 9600GT runs circles around the 360 and PS3.

Consoles offer true plug and play, and the greatest variety in games. PCs offers a level of customization that no console can match, with the potential to exceed the consoles with the right configurations.

I try to stick with both. Most cross platform games run better on my PC. However, there are exceptions, as well as platform exclusives.
The problem with PC gaming is and will always be the nuisance of upgrading your rig every few years to stay ahead of the game in performance. Not everyone knows how to build their own rig like people here (I don't), so I'd rather buy a console for $500 then spend $2000 on a PC that I will probably have to upgrade within 2 years, especially the way technology keeps progressing at a faster rate each year.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 08:30 AM   #21
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Allows licensing of their franchises...lol
I think I would cry if I saw a Mario game being played on a Sony or Microsoft console. With the success of the Wii and DS, I don't see Nintendo going the way of Sega anytime soon.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:37 AM   #22
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The problem with PC gaming is and will always be the nuisance of upgrading your rig every few years to stay ahead of the game in performance.

How is that different then buying a new console every few years?
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:44 AM   #23
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How is that different then buying a new console every few years?
$1500 every 3 years vs $400 every 4 years...
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Old June 24th, 2008, 11:00 AM   #24
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I wish the previous hardware cycle had lasted longer. All three systems did a good job in terms of balancing capability and pricing relative to when they came out, and games released late in the cycle like God of War II and Final Fantasy XII were better games than any of the launch titles from the current systems. The rush into this hardware cycle has created a lot of needless problems, and it seems like this generation may have already shot its load. Part of the problem is that a lot of the big games didn't appear as launch titles or within the first six months of the system (ie: you got Halo when Xbox came out, Halo 2 three years after). Even for this fall I do not see anything coming out that interests me as much as what has already come out in the first six months of this year (and the spring releases being so good was a result of games getting delayed out of last fall).

This hardware cycle doesn't seem to have any surprises left. We know what kind of games Nintendo is going to make for the Wii, we've seen the limits of what Xbox live is capable of (the fact that Bungie is on the verge of getting rid of 8 on 8 ranked games is pretty bad), and Sony doesn't seem like they're ever going to price PS3 in a way that would get better / less sloppy software support. It's not that the games haven't been great. I like BioShock and GTA4 as much anything I'd played previously, and COD4 is the best multiplayer shooter in years. I just think these games are turning out excellent in spite of the hardware situation, not because of it (COD4 and BioShock would still be PC games if 360 didn't exist).

I agree on having one console. "Competition" has failed the consumer this cycle. It worked great last time, but when you get a system prone to failure, a system priced too high for most people, and a system that can't really run a modern video game, I don't see the benefit. A lot of it has to do with this generation starting a year (or a year and half) earlier than it should have. Microsoft knew they were shipping units with a design flaw, Sony had to come out with an overpriced unit before they really should have, and Nintendo is the one that probably should have had a system out in 2005 given what it does.

I'd say I can't wait for the next hardware cycle but it is basically going to be this hardware cycle with less advancement in technology and more god awful controllers. At the very least, like was mentioned, come up with a scenario where Sony releases the hardware and Microsoft does the online service and developer tools. The pointless back and forth squabble between Microsoft and Sony is only serving to limit both of them. Sony can't do anything to get lazy third party developers to do better work, and Microsoft is now getting outsold monthly in the only territory where they aren't already in third place, despite having both GTA4 and Halo 3 sitting on store shelves.

How things got so ridiculously stupid in one hardware cycle is a feat unmatched even by Sega in its glory days.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 11:19 AM   #25
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This generation of consoles still offer high end gaming. You got games like MGS4, GoW series, RE5, etc, which are all great looking games and play very well. I got a 8800gts and I don't think your 9600gt "runs circles" around the 360 or ps3.
I do agree that this gen does still offer high end gaming. However, my PC offers higher end. I could care less what your opinion of my GPU is. Fact is, for multiplatform games, I get a better visual experience. I'll give two immediate examples.

GRID - On the 360, it's 720P at best, 2xAA. I'm running it at 1680x1050, 16xAA, 16xAF, 45fps, never dips below 35.

Devil May Cry 4 - Again, another console title that runs at 720P at best ,and 2xAA if any. I run at 16xAA/16xAF, again 1680x1050, and this game stays locked at 45fps + in crowded areas. Boss fights stay locked at 60fps.

So even though you "think" my 9600GT is inferior or at best, on par, I'm going to continue enjoying its superior performance.

Quote:
The problem with PC gaming is and will always be the nuisance of upgrading your rig every few years to stay ahead of the game in performance. Not everyone knows how to build their own rig like people here (I don't), so I'd rather buy a console for $500 then spend $2000 on a PC that I will probably have to upgrade within 2 years, especially the way technology keeps progressing at a faster rate each year.
The problem with PC gaming will always be people that think you need a $2000 system to play games. A $600 Dell today plays games very well, just not up to console quality. My system is your typical Intel quad-core system available to consumers, with a $150 (now $110) video card thrown in. You only have to stay ahead of the game if you absolutely have to have EVERY game running with 16xAA/16xAF @60fps. If you're using a 360 or PS3, then you're not picky about these features to begin with.

Bottom line is, a $100 video card today will keep up with today's consoles on medium resolution monitors, and will last you a few years. I fully expect that, as newer games release, I'll have to crank the AA down. It's inevitable for people like me, who only upgrade their GPU every 2-3 years.
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